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Speed Sensor Problem
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fraso
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 2:15 pm    Post subject:  Speed Sensor Problem Reply with quote

For the past summer, I've had a speed sensor problem and have finally gotten around to fixing it. The problem is that the ABS & Traction Control lamps come on when I make a sharp right turn but not necessary to fully RH lock. Since this only happens when I turn the steering wheel, my guess is that the problem is in the speed sensor harness and I'm trying to figure out which one. Previously, I've had a mechanic repair the left front harness with a splice near the inboard side of the control arm.

I took the front wheels off and let the lower control arms rest on blocks. I then started the engine and put the car in drive (and in reverse). However, I can't get the lamps to come on no matter how often I've turned the steering wheel lock to lock. I think it might have something to do with the back wheels not turning but I really have no idea.

In the traction control topic, bbengineer wrote:
bbengineer wrote:
Connect an AC voltmeter to the hub harness and spin the hub... you should see 100mv AC if the speed sensor is good

Connect an ohm meter to the hub harness... you should see 850-1350 ohms if the speed sensor is good


If I have an intermittently broken wire, I'm not sure how can precisely determine which harness is faulty. Is there any other way for me to figure this out?
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 2:21 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote

A good scanner can tell you exactly what wheel is causing the fault. A trip to a well equipped mechanic may be needed.

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fraso
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 2:47 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote

I had the local repair shop diagnose my first speed sensor issue and that cost 1 hour of shop time. I recall that the mechanic measured the harness resistance as part of the diagnosis. I was hoping to be able to diagnose and repair this problem (with a new harness) myself this time.

I have a generic OBDII code reader (Elmscan 5 USB & ScanXL) but it didn't report any codes for the traction control fault.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 4:52 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote

You need a top end scanner to get ABS codes. The cheapy ones don't stand a chance. The best you can really do is take a look at the wire and see if the insulation has frayed away. It usually happens a few inches from the pigtail.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 5:11 pm    Post subject:  Cleared Up Reply with quote

Since the RF harness gets pinched on a right turn, my guess is that the problem on the right side. It's hard to hold the pigtail with the 2 leads but I was getting 41.3 ohms on each side of the car.

I found another rim in the junkyard (see Struts & Tire Wear topic) and put everything back together to get it. It looks like one reason I had such a hard time getting the ABS fault is that it seems to have cleared up and the ABS worked fine for the trip. I'll have to continue this later.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 9:30 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote

I had one come in and do the exact same thing, the clip that holds the harness on to the knuckle was broke, the wires eventually rubbed thru.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 11:02 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote

I had a lot of problems with the clip on the LF speed sensor last time as it kept getting loose from its anchor. This time, both clips are secure and the wires from the hub seem to held well out the way of the drive shaft.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 12:37 am    Post subject:  Re: Speed Sensor Problem Reply with quote

fraso wrote:


If I have an intermittently broken wire, I'm not sure how can precisely determine which harness is faulty. Is there any other way for me to figure this out?




Well since this is a FWD the
front differential

it's a limited slip differential which distributes power equally to both the right and left tires.


traction control off

a regular differential, which, anyone who's been stuck in the mud in Alabama knows, you step on the gas, one tire spins, the other tire does nothing.



is traction control turning off? or it's just activating often ??

Tire pressure been checked?
Uneven tirewear?

happens in the same places/ same street? (I find this to be a issue my self)
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 1:09 am    Post subject:  Re: Speed Sensor Problem Reply with quote

Impala_03 wrote:
fraso wrote:


If I have an intermittently broken wire, I'm not sure how can precisely determine which harness is faulty. Is there any other way for me to figure this out?




Well since this is a FWD the
front differential

it's a limited slip differential which distributes power equally to both the right and left tires.


traction control off

a regular differential, which, anyone who's been stuck in the mud in Alabama knows, you step on the gas, one tire spins, the other tire does nothing.



is traction control turning off? or it's just activating often ??

Tire pressure been checked?
Uneven tirewear?

happens in the same places/ same street? (I find this to be a issue my self)

never been to alabama. so i guess im screwed. but he should have 4 speed sensors. they monitor speed for abs, tire pressure and traction control. if anyone of those screws up it will kick on the light. if your tire pressure is down it will only kick on the check tire pressure light. if he spins a tire it will kick on the tcl. if the sensor is screwed it will kick on the abs and tcl. and you will sometimes lose cruise control. since you cant get it to happen while you have the car jacked up i would think its a poor connection where inertia is effected and moves the wires due to G-force

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 3:32 pm    Post subject:  Re: Speed Sensor Problem Reply with quote

Irish_alley wrote:
Impala_03 wrote:
fraso wrote:


If I have an intermittently broken wire, I'm not sure how can precisely determine which harness is faulty. Is there any other way for me to figure this out?




Well since this is a FWD the
front differential

it's a limited slip differential which distributes power equally to both the right and left tires.


traction control off

a regular differential, which, anyone who's been stuck in the mud in Alabama knows, you step on the gas, one tire spins, the other tire does nothing.



is traction control turning off? or it's just activating often ??

Tire pressure been checked?
Uneven tirewear?

happens in the same places/ same street? (I find this to be a issue my self)

never been to alabama. so i guess im screwed. but he should have 4 speed sensors. they monitor speed for abs, tire pressure and traction control. if anyone of those screws up it will kick on the light. if your tire pressure is down it will only kick on the check tire pressure light. if he spins a tire it will kick on the tcl. if the sensor is screwed it will kick on the abs and tcl. and you will sometimes lose cruise control. since you cant get it to happen while you have the car jacked up i would think its a poor connection where inertia is effected and moves the wires due to G-force
well since your in Delaware the snow/ice equivalent.


TC kicks in , still comes on for me even after replacing tires ,tie rod .ABS cable and wheel hub.


it does only happen on very specific streets and specific parking lots
I suspect it actually doing it's "job" because in areas the wheel does seem like it's slipping on these specific streets and specific parking lots when traction control is off
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 4:14 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote

Before I tried to figure out what is causing this problem, the traction control & ABS lights would come on every time I backed out of my garage. My garage is on the side of the house so I have to turn the steering wheel so as to back out 90 to the right. Once turned 90, I then drive straight ahead to the street. I have a concrete pad on which to turn so there was no tire spinning this summer.

If I'm parked somewhere and can drive away straight, there is no fault until I significantly turn the wheel. The fault generally stays on until I turn the engine off.

When I was trouble-shooting this issue, I put the blocks under each front control arm (approx 9" high) so the car wasn't sitting too much different than it would have been on tires. When I back out of my driveway, it is at a very slow speed so I don't think that g-forces are much of an issue. However, the harness wire under the pigtail does appear to get pinched (ie more severe u-shape) on the side that in the direction of the turn. That's what made me suspect that it was the right-hand harness is damaged. The LF harness appeared to be damaged from torsion as it was broken near the control arm pivot.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 12:17 am    Post subject:   Reply with quote

well there goes that theory lol. so its not just triggered by turning one way?

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 3:35 am    Post subject:   Reply with quote

fraso wrote:
Before I tried to figure out what is causing this problem, the traction control & ABS lights would come on every time I backed out of my garage. My garage is on the side of the house so I have to turn the steering wheel so as to back out 90 to the right. Once turned 90, I then drive straight ahead to the street. I have a concrete pad on which to turn so there was no tire spinning this summer.

If I'm parked somewhere and can drive away straight, there is no fault until I significantly turn the wheel. The fault generally stays on until I turn the engine off.

When I was trouble-shooting this issue, I put the blocks under each front control arm (approx 9" high) so the car wasn't sitting too much different than it would have been on tires. When I back out of my driveway, it is at a very slow speed so I don't think that g-forces are much of an issue. However, the harness wire under the pigtail does appear to get pinched (ie more severe u-shape) on the side that in the direction of the turn. That's what made me suspect that it was the right-hand harness is damaged. The LF harness appeared to be damaged from torsion as it was broken near the control arm pivot.


when you say fault generally stays on until I turn the engine off.

do you mean the
Trac off and ABS light ?



Well putting it on bricks will not help since there is no "slip to activate it"
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 10:27 am    Post subject:   Reply with quote

Yes. The instrument panel would show both the Traction Control Off lamp and the ABS lamp.

There was never any slip to activate the ABS/TC lamps. It always happened during a slow speed turn.

While it was up on blocks (with the wheels removed), I would put the car in gear and turn the steering wheel left and right to try replicating the problem. I also tried moving the harness around while the car was in gear.

After putting the wheels back on, the ABS/TC fault hasn't occurred again. There is no way for me test for a problem that now seems to have cleared up.

While I was working on this, I thought there might be a possibility that the system wasn't registering a fault because the rear wheels were stationary while the front wheels were turning. I then tried measuring the harness resistance while moving the cable around but it was difficult to keep the test lead pins in the harness socket.
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PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2014 7:06 am    Post subject:   Reply with quote

did you ever have this problem again. the reason i ask is cause i was having this problem this past week or two(cruise control still worked) but i could hear/feel the traction controll being activated under normal driving conditions this would kick the light on. then a couple days ago i was hearing a loud grinding noise with brakes. turns out my pad worn uneven the piston side was gone on the passengers side and driver side wasnt far behind still had a " on the outside pads both sides. replaced brakes and now the lights are off

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