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Is this passlock.. or something else?

 
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ksva
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 4:28 pm    Post subject: Question Is this passlock.. or something else? Reply with quote

Hi all,

I have a Chevrolet Impala (9C1 POLICE PACKAGE) 3.8L.

When I purchased the car I was given a plain metal key (it's definitely not chipped). I read that parts of the passlock system are disabled on 9C1s- and didn't think anything of it. About a month after I purchased the car from the dealer, it started giving me the problems listed below.

The issue: Car has passlock-like symptoms.. but through troubleshooting- all seems to point to some other problem (not passlock).

At random times, the car refuses to crank the engine when the key is in the start position. The security light never blinks (Infact I don't ever see the security light when I turn the key to start then back to on), I can hear the fuel pump(?) prime, and something click in the dash when turned to START.

Sometimes it only takes another keyturn to START to get it to crank over. Other times it can take up to two weeks before it decides to start, screwing me over pretty badly each time this happens.

The only time I see the security light is when I turn the key to OFF, then turn it to ON, it will cycle between battery, and security (but not blinking security). If I turn the key to START then the security message goes away.

The GM relearn procedure many have posted does nothing. Leaving the key in the ON position for 10 minutes does nothing. Pulling the battery and letting it sit overnight does nothing. I've had it where the car wouldn't start for nearly two weeks then all of the sudden was fine for almost a year.

I took the car to a security/alarm specialist to have the resistor bypass done. They tried for a few days and were unsuccessful, I quote their head technician "You have yourself a Christine here... the problem is past the ignition switch son".

I've checked the contacts on the ignition switch and they look fine.

I installed the PLJX kit last week, I followed the steps in the PLJX manual and according to the light sequence on the kit it seemed successful but when turning the key to start the car still would not crank over.

I was so desperate one day I got under the car and bridged the starter, but it just spun up and never grabbed the engine. I assume this is because there is some security bull____ that prevents this.

I did some voltage tests on the three passlock wires off of the igniton switch. Here are the results.

-Here is the order in which I tested them-

Key in ON position
White Wire - 11.11v
Black Wire - 00.04v
Yellow Wire - 04.75v

Key in START position
Yellow Wire - 02.90v
Key in OFF position
Yellow Wire - 04.75v
Key in START position
Yellow Wire - 02.90v
Key in OFF position
Yellow Wire - 04.75v
Key in START position
Yellow Wire - 02.90v
Key in OFF position
Yellow Wire - 04.75v

All readings were consistent.

I am at my wits end here, I am so frustrated I just want to take a 10lb sledge to the dash and hood.

Does anyone have any ideas or steps to diagnose this further?

Thank you in advance for any insight-

-Kyle
[/b]
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ZSPOT
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 5:00 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote

9C1 cars should have the same security setup as a civilian model as far as I can tell. Since the PASSLOCK goes through the BCM, and you've already tried the bypass kit, I'd say your BCM is either not receiving the code from the sensor, or it isn't sending the code to the PCM. I'd start there next.

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ksva
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 5:24 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote

ZSPOT wrote:
9C1 cars should have the same security setup as a civilian model as far as I can tell. Since the PASSLOCK goes through the BCM, and you've already tried the bypass kit, I'd say your BCM is either not receiving the code from the sensor, or it isn't sending the code to the PCM. I'd start there next.

Should I then check for voltage values at the BCM or PCM?

Do you know which wire sends the start command to the PCM from the BCM? Anyone have a wiring diagram for the PCM cable bundle?
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ZSPOT
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 5:54 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote

The yellow, black and white wires from the PASSLOCK all run to the BCM.
connector C1, B9 = white / B12 = black
connector C2, A3 = yellow

For your signal from the BCM to the PCM....
BCM
Connector C1, A5 = light green

PCM
Connector C1, 59 = dark green

That's about all I got. Laughing

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ksva
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 6:24 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote

ZSPOT wrote:
The yellow, black and white wires from the PASSLOCK all run to the BCM.
connector C1, B9 = white / B12 = black
connector C2, A3 = yellow

For your signal from the BCM to the PCM....
BCM
Connector C1, A5 = light green

PCM
Connector C1, 59 = dark green

That's about all I got. Laughing

Thank you so much, I'll report back with what I find.
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Frank
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 9:44 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote

11v is a little low...are you sure you aren't dealing with a bad battery or cables, or even an ignition switch?

If it was a passlock issue, you should at least be getting a flashing security message on the instrument cluster...

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ksva
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 2:35 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote

Frank wrote:
11v is a little low...are you sure you aren't dealing with a bad battery or cables, or even an ignition switch?

If it was a passlock issue, you should at least be getting a flashing security message on the instrument cluster...


I suppose I should have checked the values when the car first stopped working. I've been messing with it for a week now and I have definitely run the battery down. I'll throw it on a charger and re-test.

If I were to put a new ignition switch in, would I have to get the BCM re-programmed?
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 2:40 am    Post subject:   Reply with quote

Nope, but the possibility exists that you may have to do the 30 minute security relearn procedure...kinda doubt it though.

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ksva
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 12:29 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote

Frank wrote:
11v is a little low...are you sure you aren't dealing with a bad battery or cables, or even an ignition switch?

If it was a passlock issue, you should at least be getting a flashing security message on the instrument cluster...


Swapped with a brand new ignition switch, no dice. I have to get a tow done since the POS died at work a week ago and they no longer want it on the lot- so once I get it home I will test the wires.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2013 2:03 am    Post subject: Question Re: Is this passlock.. or something else? Reply with quote

ksva wrote:
Hi all,

I have a Chevrolet Impala (9C1 POLICE PACKAGE) 3.8L.

When I purchased the car I was given a plain metal key (it's definitely not chipped). I read that parts of the passlock system are disabled on 9C1s- and didn't think anything of it. About a month after I purchased the car from the dealer, it started giving me the problems listed below.

The issue: Car has passlock-like symptoms.. but through troubleshooting- all seems to point to some other problem (not passlock).

At random times, the car refuses to crank the engine when the key is in the start position. The security light never blinks (Infact I don't ever see the security light when I turn the key to start then back to on), I can hear the fuel pump(?) prime, and something click in the dash when turned to START.

Sometimes it only takes another keyturn to START to get it to crank over. Other times it can take up to two weeks before it decides to start, screwing me over pretty badly each time this happens.

The only time I see the security light is when I turn the key to OFF, then turn it to ON, it will cycle between battery, and security (but not blinking security). If I turn the key to START then the security message goes away.

The GM relearn procedure many have posted does nothing. Leaving the key in the ON position for 10 minutes does nothing. Pulling the battery and letting it sit overnight does nothing. I've had it where the car wouldn't start for nearly two weeks then all of the sudden was fine for almost a year.

I took the car to a security/alarm specialist to have the resistor bypass done. They tried for a few days and were unsuccessful, I quote their head technician "You have yourself a Christine here... the problem is past the ignition switch son".

I've checked the contacts on the ignition switch and they look fine.

I installed the PLJX kit last week, I followed the steps in the PLJX manual and according to the light sequence on the kit it seemed successful but when turning the key to start the car still would not crank over.

I was so desperate one day I got under the car and bridged the starter, but it just spun up and never grabbed the engine. I assume this is because there is some security bull____ that prevents this.

I did some voltage tests on the three passlock wires off of the igniton switch. Here are the results.

-Here is the order in which I tested them-

Key in ON position
White Wire - 11.11v
Black Wire - 00.04v
Yellow Wire - 04.75v

Key in START position
Yellow Wire - 02.90v
Key in OFF position
Yellow Wire - 04.75v
Key in START position
Yellow Wire - 02.90v
Key in OFF position
Yellow Wire - 04.75v
Key in START position
Yellow Wire - 02.90v
Key in OFF position
Yellow Wire - 04.75v

All readings were consistent.

I am at my wits end here, I am so frustrated I just want to take a 10lb sledge to the dash and hood.

Does anyone have any ideas or steps to diagnose this further?

Thank you in advance for any insight-

-Kyle
[/b]
battery is discharged at 11.11volts

10% charge @ 11.31VDC


for me the car would not even start at 70% charge (it acted like if the battery was dead) boosted to 100% and it turned over Rolling Eyes I make sure the battery is topped off by running the car enough.



yes the fuel would prime and nothing.... it would just flash battery light
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2013 10:17 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote

We need BCM DTC's (codes).....This will help greatly.

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ksva
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 4:33 pm    Post subject: Question Re: Is this passlock.. or something else? Reply with quote

Quote:
battery is discharged at 11.11volts

10% charge @ 11.31VDC


for me the car would not even start at 70% charge (it acted like if the battery was dead) boosted to 100% and it turned over Rolling Eyes I make sure the battery is topped off by running the car enough.



yes the fuel would prime and nothing.... it would just flash battery light


I know that yellow wire threw 11.1, but the battery up front shows 12.1. I know you might think I'm crazy but I kid you not.. today without messing with anything I got in the car- turned the key- BAM it started right up.

Will autozone give me BCM codes- or do I need a special tuner? I have a piece of crap bluetooth ELM327 ODBII interface but my torquepro app on my phone only gives me CELs :[

Is there an application on my computer I can use with the odb2 adapter that may show BCM codes?

___________________

Update: I drove the car home, finally got it off of my office lot. As soon as I parked the car in my driveway and shut the engine off, I tried to start it again... no dice.

Same exact issue.

I drove it around for nearly an hour- never died on me while driving.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 1:14 pm    Post subject:  could you? Reply with quote

hello, could you figure out this problem?
my car, do the same, some times ,after resting time, for example after work, the car dont crank, i have not security lights, i only have a hot weater condition
as reference and as a comun after this teh car wont crank.

The symphtom is like if you attempt to crank on R position, nothing happend, i checked the ignition switch and it seems in the back side, one cable from shifter get inside i think this dont allow you could crank in R or 3,2,1.
and maybe the car can not check park position,also the conector in the ignition switch 2 conector looks a litle bit burn, they present like black color condition, i only clean with sand paper and reconet again, today i will check if something diferent happend..after work.

I think this is not a passlock problem or a battery or a starter.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 5:08 am    Post subject:   Reply with quote

not a 100% sure on our cars but if you jump the starter wrong it will just spin, you have to jump the little wire with one of the big wire at least thats how it is on my trucks. also have you checked the relay? and dont just "think" that something isnt bad have it tested if it can be

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