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LIM Work
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Lingenfelter
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 11:23 am    Post subject:  LIM Work Reply with quote

Well, after delaying gasket replacement for a minor external LIM leak, I pull the car out of the garage this morning to see a consistent +/- 2 second drip, transmission side of the block is wet.

It appears that the leak is coming from the driverside of the LIM, but that spot is so close to the manifold gasket that it's hard to tell which is leaking.

Does the FelPro gasket set include a throttle body gasket?

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ScottMPala
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 12:20 pm    Post subject:  Re: LIM Work Reply with quote

Lingenfelter wrote:
Well, after delaying gasket replacement for a minor external LIM leak, I pull the car out of the garage this morning to see a consistent +/- 2 second drip, transmission side of the block is wet.

It appears that the leak is coming from the driverside of the LIM, but that spot is so close to the manifold gasket that it's hard to tell which is leaking.

Does the FelPro gasket set include a throttle body gasket?


It does not

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Lingenfelter
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 7:45 pm    Post subject:  Re: LIM Work Reply with quote

ScottMPala wrote:
Lingenfelter wrote:
Well, after delaying gasket replacement for a minor external LIM leak, I pull the car out of the garage this morning to see a consistent +/- 2 second drip, transmission side of the block is wet.

It appears that the leak is coming from the driverside of the LIM, but that spot is so close to the manifold gasket that it's hard to tell which is leaking.

Does the FelPro gasket set include a throttle body gasket?


It does not


As I discovered this afternoon, it's alright though - fortunately I saved the unused TB gasket from the GM kit last time I did the LIM/UIM.

Would have been done in about 4 hours today but I forgot, like an idiot, that in the LIM there are 2 bolts always hidden in pools of oil. I was reefing like hell on the lower manifold, figuring I had all the bolts out and just wasn't pulling hard enough to get the manifold out. Rolling Eyes

So I'll clean the mating surfaces and reinstall everything with new gaskets (and a new belt-mine needed replacing anyway) tomorrow.

Also, I priced everything at the dealer (in Ontario, Canada) - 370 bucks for upper and lower gaskets, oil and filter, coolant, and the pair of elbows. I ended up buying only coolant (still 20 bucks per gallon) at the dealer, and got everything else at Partsource (our version of Autozone) for 200.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 10:46 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote

You probably won't be doing this any time soon. But i did my lim and all the other gaskets including injector orings and Aluminium oolent elbows instead of the plastic ones that break all for 135. the aluminium lim was only 35$ all from Rockauto.com. So look them up some time you might save some more money on those things.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 11:25 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote

Unfortunately he lives in Canada, so he gets screwed on auto part prices.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 11:28 am    Post subject:   Reply with quote

IffyG wrote:
Unfortunately he lives in Canada, so he gets screwed on auto part prices.


And shipping, to boot. I would have ordered from Rockauto but Wanderson is the only guy I know who travels across the border on a regular basis, and I couldn't get a hold of him.

Unfortunately there was a blowout on the driverside LIM gasket, so I couldn't delay the repair any longer - was hoping to do this in the summer. It was 5 degress Fahrenheit yesterday afternoon and is only slightly warmer today...


EDIT: Does anyone what know what the torque spec is for the thermostat housing? The only info I can find is from a french site and it's supposedly from a 1997 Haynes manual for the 3800 series II - says 20 ft lbs.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 3:05 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote

20 ft/lbs is right.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 4:27 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote

Snapped a bolt off in the LIM. Was only applying 11 ft lbs...

I'm absolutely not going to drill and tap the block when the temps are below freezing and this is my only car, so it's going back together as-is so I have a car to get to work tomorrow.

If it leaks once it's all together, may be time for a trade-in. I'm growing really tired of snapping bolts when I'm using a torque wrench and everything.

Is it normal practice to buy all new bolts when doing these gaskets? The torque wrench was bought last time I did these gaskets and only really gets used for wheel nuts, so it shouldn't be worn out. And it's Mastercraft. Not top of the line, but shouldn't be a total pile of crap out of the box. What gives?

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 5:19 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote

Is it a long 1/2 drive torque wrench? Mine starts at 20 foot pounds. You don't have it set at KGS?... 11 ft lbs is not much.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 5:42 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote

Sometimes it doesn't matter. I snapped a throttle body stud on the Intrigue using an in/lb torque wrench...

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 7:13 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote

it is a half inch wrench, the markings start at 20lbs, but it allows you to turn it down to 10lbs, at least physically. Maybe the wrench isn't actually adjusting down below 20.

I got the car wrapped up, but was only able to add 1 gallon to the rad, so I added another half gallon to the reservoir. Idling the car until the temperature reached 5/8 up the gauge, and bubbles were coming up, but it seems to have stopped. The gauge is still reading just above half, which is about 1/4 higher than it normally reads in these outdoor temps. It doesn't appear to have pulled any coolant into the heater core, since at full heat the car is now blowing cool air still.

My buddy came by yesterday and squeezed the upper rad hose for so long the coolant was all sucked out of the reservoir. I didn't measure how much came out but the my oil change catchpan is completely full so I have to assume the car was bone dry.

So, I have three questions:

How long should the heater core take to refill after adding about 6 litres of the 11 litre capacity?

Do we have to use the bleeder screw on the thermostat housing, or will the system self-bleed via the coolant overflow bottle? My bleeder screw appears to do nothing but blow out steam straight at my vacuum lines, which I'm a little concerned is going to melt or deform them.

How do I know when the thermostat has opened- and is air in the system going to prevent it from operating correctly? I have to assume the 6/11 litres I added is all thats in the system, so I'm thinking it's almost half full of air.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 7:18 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote

What bolt snapped off?

You can probably just high temp RTV the piss out of it and call it a day.


EDIT: Side note, not sure if anyone here does it, but ALWAYS back off your torque wrench when finished. if you leave it set, the spring will wear down over time and it won't be accurate. Just an FYI

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 7:45 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote

00impala123 wrote:
What bolt snapped off?

You can probably just high temp RTV the piss out of it and call it a day.


EDIT: Side note, not sure if anyone here does it, but ALWAYS back off your torque wrench when finished. if you leave it set, the spring will wear down over time and it won't be accurate. Just an FYI


I snapped the one inside the LIM where it's normally hidden in a pool of oil (front of the engine, driverside)

I also zero out my torque wrench when I'm done using it.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 8:24 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote

Lingenfelter wrote:

So, I have three questions:

How long should the heater core take to refill after adding about 6 litres of the 11 litre capacity?

Do we have to use the bleeder screw on the thermostat housing, or will the system self-bleed via the coolant overflow bottle? My bleeder screw appears to do nothing but blow out steam straight at my vacuum lines, which I'm a little concerned is going to melt or deform them.

How do I know when the thermostat has opened- and is air in the system going to prevent it from operating correctly? I have to assume the 6/11 litres I added is all thats in the system, so I'm thinking it's almost half full of air.


It shouldn't take long to refill the heater core as long as the system is full.

You really need to use the bleeder screw to get the air out of the system. What I usually did was take a shop towel with a hole in it, stuck a screw driver through the hole and let it bleed until the shop towel started to get wet. After that, I'd just slowly open the screw to let the last bit of air out.

FWIW, when I did my LIM, my system only took about 6 quarts of coolant to be full. You might have enough fluid in there.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:16 am    Post subject:   Reply with quote

IffyG wrote:
Lingenfelter wrote:

So, I have three questions:

How long should the heater core take to refill after adding about 6 litres of the 11 litre capacity?

Do we have to use the bleeder screw on the thermostat housing, or will the system self-bleed via the coolant overflow bottle? My bleeder screw appears to do nothing but blow out steam straight at my vacuum lines, which I'm a little concerned is going to melt or deform them.

How do I know when the thermostat has opened- and is air in the system going to prevent it from operating correctly? I have to assume the 6/11 litres I added is all thats in the system, so I'm thinking it's almost half full of air.


It shouldn't take long to refill the heater core as long as the system is full.

You really need to use the bleeder screw to get the air out of the system. What I usually did was take a shop towel with a hole in it, stuck a screw driver through the hole and let it bleed until the shop towel started to get wet. After that, I'd just slowly open the screw to let the last bit of air out.

FWIW, when I did my LIM, my system only took about 6 quarts of coolant to be full. You might have enough fluid in there.


Thanks for the replies (yourself and others as well).

Strangely, when I went outside, the car -which was shut off- had eaten up probably 8" of fluid out of the overflow tank (I had it pretty full, expecting it would be drawn down by the system while it was running)


I didn't try after I got home from the short drive around the block, but before when I turned the bleeder screw, nothing happened. I kept turning until the screw came right out - inside the housing was dry! I left the screw completely removed and steam was coming out at one point - I have to assume that's when the thermostat had opened. I put the screw back in because I got paranoid that a column of coolant was going to come out and damage something.

I will use the bleeder screw tomorrow after work - my drive is very short. My trip around the block tonight was maybe 2 or 3 miles - the temperature needle floated around it's normal level, and the heater core was filling up.

So when the system is finally nearly full, the bleeder screw will bubble out the air when the screw is just slightly opened? That's my understanding of how it works, but it just wasn't happening earlier.

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