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Starting Issue

 
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2001Ls
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 11:28 am    Post subject:  Starting Issue Reply with quote

I crank, it sputters- then dies. Crank it again and we're off. I prime the fuel pump first and it still sputters on the first attempt. Any ideas?

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2001 Impala LS 81k as of Nov,2011
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98ss
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2011 Chevrolet Silverado


PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 9:24 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote

Sounds like the check valve in the fuel pump is going bad.
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dactionjackson09
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 5:54 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote

Just had this exact same problem. I replaced my fuel pressure regulator and it went away. Hope that helps.
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2001Ls
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 1:21 am    Post subject:   Reply with quote

I just checked this thread again after a couple weeks, still have the problem havent gotten it diagnosed yet bc I need a FP gauge. dactionjackson09 thanks for the tip.. I know its either a fuel check valve, FPR, or leaky injector. ... I have another though about this though, when I first crank in the morning the first start of the day I do not have a fuel pressure issue, it starts right up with no prime even. Every start after that though it doesnt get fuel until like crank 3.... this is what killed my last battery and I cant forsee anything good coming from this. If anybody could explain why I dont have a problem in the morning with the fuel pressure it would be a lesson to me. Thanks.

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Frank
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 5:24 am    Post subject:   Reply with quote

I had the same symptoms (stalling on warm starts and I could smell gas when it stalled) and it was my FPR. I replaced it with one from Auto Zone (I think GP Sorenson branded) about six years ago and I haven't had any problems since.

The FPR scales back the high pressure put out by the fuel pump to a lower pressure usable by the injectors. I never measured fuel pressure on the output side of the FPR when it happened, but I am assuming that the seals in the FPR start to go after a while.

My hypothesis is that when the engine is running it's not a huge deal (since the fuel is being used and it's a relatively slow leak - not enough to build pressure greater than normal when fuel is being consumed), but when the engine is shut down the higher pressure from the pressurized fuel lines leaks past the FPR (faster than the check valve in the fuel pump leaks) and into the fuel rail towards the injectors - causing a rich condition in the cylinders on start-up that the PCM cannot compensate for fast enough and the engine surges and stalls. Over time, the fuel pressure drops down slowly via the check valve in the fuel pump to the point that there is not an excess amount of fuel in the fuel rails and the fuel pump primes the lines and rail and the car starts normally.

Hopefully that wasn't too convoluted and it makes sense. There are diagnostic procedures for testing the FPR that require a fuel pressure gauge and I believe a vacuum pump, but I never bothered with it (since I didn't have a vacuum pump at the time) and it was cheap enough to replace the FPR.

As far as the fuel gauge goes (unless it's an issue with the wiring or the stepper motor in the cluster), it's cheaper to buy an entire fuel pump with the level sender from Morad Parts than it is to just buy the level sender new - and you'll get a pump with likely less mileage than your current one, which would end up being a preventative maintenance type thing with the pump. I have had my level sender wear out twice now and am on my third fuel pump as a result. Wink

Unfortunately the level sender doesn't really have a good design for the electrical contacts (two small prongs sticking out that eventually wear down or break off). I recently had the fuel pump out of my in-laws Toyota and it is a much better design (it has 175K on it and the original level sender, whereas mine has 210K now and it's on the third one). Unfortunately the fuel pump went in their Toyota which necessitated dropping the whole tank which was a PITA, but the one in my Impala gets replaced every 85-100K. Wink

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2001Ls
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 3:56 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote

Thanks Frank,

Are FPR's rebuildable?!?!?! on rock auto they sell a seal kit for FPR's
Also what part number are Fuel Injector O-rings?

Frank, can you explain your theory on excess pressure? In the morning I do not have a starting problem, its one turn and im running. Hypothetically if the FPR is making the rail have too high pressure is your theory that overnight fuel pressure drops via the check valve and return line slowly leaking? I mean that would make sense. I havent been able to get a pressure test kit because they are all loaned out at stores in my area and I dont feel like popping for $50 when I might only use it once or twice.

To test your high pressure theory Im going to try a hot restart but relieve fuel pressure via the schrader valve first then prime then start. If it starts ok then too much pressure in the rail would defintally be the cause because of the bad FPR. I also have heard that leaky injectors drip fuel into a cylinder causing flooding, but I think that overnight the car would suffer more leakage and my problem would occur in the morning which it doesnt. The symptoms seem like I have low fuel pressure on starts opposed to high pressure. I just cant figure out why it only happens on hot starts.

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Frank
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 5:34 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote

Just replace the FPR...it's not worth the hassle, it's only $35. You might be able to rebuild it, but a new aftermarket one is only $13 more than the rebuild kit.

You don't need to pull the injectors out to replace the regulator, but I got the o-rings from the dealer (I replace them when I did my intake manifold gaskets). There's two on each injector IIRC and the dealer sells them in 4 or 8 packs, but Rockauto also has them.

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2001Ls
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 6:54 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote

I dont think its a too much pressure issue, it's definitally a low pressure issue. I went out and depressed the schrader valve on my last start and no fuel came out. So this is either the check valve, leaking fpr, leaking injector, or dying pump,

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2001Ls
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 9:12 am    Post subject:   Reply with quote

Update:

This turned out to be my FPR. I got one for $25 on ebay. Fit fine.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/121056.....1497.l2649

Standard Motor Products
Manufacturer Part Number: PR217

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