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Worth Fixing?
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Lingenfelter
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 11:59 am    Post subject:  Worth Fixing? Reply with quote

I'm debating wether I want to pick up a new vehicle, something preowned, or just fix the Impala again.

The Impala needs two new tires, new control arm bushings, lim gasket replacement, front pads and rotos, and the transmission bangs into second probably 30% of the time I drive away from a light.

I can do the lim gasket on my own, but I have no press or vice to work on the bushings, and I'm not opening the transmission again on my own.

The wife is off work with the new baby, so it'd leave us a bit shorthanded if we get anything too expensive at this point. (Yeah, the Elise is off the table as of 9 months and 3 weeks ago Laughing )

If I get a different car, I'm figuring on a new Impreza (just a base 5-door with manual trans) at about 22k CDN, or a Corolla (Manual) for about 17k, or a Cruze for 17k. (Toyota and GM family discounts)
Opinions?

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jmakinen
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 12:50 pm    Post subject:  Re: Worth Fixing? Reply with quote

Lingenfelter wrote:
The Impala needs two new tires, new control arm bushings, lim gasket replacement, front pads and rotos, and the transmission bangs into second probably 30% of the time I drive away from a light.


$100 for moderately improved brakes
$180 for w-body store control arms
$300 for 2 decent tires
$5 for LIM gasket
And I think to replace the 3 transmission sensors is around $50

Running total- $635 + shipping

So basically you're looking at 1 day to replace your control arms & brakes, and another day to do the transmission & LIM gasket. And that's taking your sweet time doing it. Realistically this could all be knocked out in a full day. You could also bump the price up to about $1000 and go with F-body brakes.

So, is it worth paying a 5 year loan for something else, rather than a couple paychecks & a little elbow grease? Depends on your outlook. Is there anything else you feel is about ready to go on the car? Do you really wanna do the work yourself? Are you capable of the work yourself? Or do you wanna pay more money for the satisfaction of driving something new? Fixing is much cheaper. Buying is much easier.

Edit: Those are US dollar prices, I'm too lazy to convert to Canadian

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 1:40 pm    Post subject:  Re: Worth Fixing? Reply with quote

jmakinen wrote:

$100 for moderately improved brakes
$180 for w-body store control arms
$300 for 2 decent tires
$5 for LIM gasket
And I think to replace the 3 transmission sensors is around $50

Running total- $635 + shipping

Edit: Those are US dollar prices, I'm too lazy to convert to Canadian


I haven't priced anything out, but can compare some to previous times I've done the same work on the car.

Are brake pads and rotors really so cheap that I can do the fronts for $100 USD?

Why would I replace the whole Control arms vs. just the bushings?

Tires sound about right, not sure how the pricing is on 4 wheel alignment.

Last time I did the LIM gasket, the bill for the parts from GM was about 240 bucks (gasket kit, o-rings for injectors, dexcool, etc).

I haven't done any troubleshooting on the transmission... what sensors are you talking about? How do I determine whether this is the solution or not?

I'm not really comfortable opening the transmission on my own. I have the capability to do the rest, unless I need a press for bushings.

I don't think there's anything else wrong with the car at this point. I know the dealer is more than happy to do the work, but they're never cheap, especially up here. I can't see myself spending 2 grand on a car thats worth 4 on trade-in. I don't really care about driving a shiny new car, since I don't care what anyone else thinks about the car, and most of the newer features and electronics have zero appeal to me.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 1:58 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote

You can do front pads and rotors for less than $100 if you get the parts store economy line, but they're not going to last as long as something a little better. People get new control arms instead of replacing the bushings because it is much easier and you get new ball joints. I'd recommend dorman ones off rockauto, they're the same thing as the wbodystore ones minus a poly bushing, and half the price. Find some used tires on craigslist. I just picked up an almost new set of studded snows for $25 for all 4. LIM gasket is a few hours worth of your time, just make sure to get the updated aluminum gaskets and you'll never have to do them again (that's assuming 3800. 3400, idk).

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 2:32 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote

Don't put a penny into a beater Impala with transmission issues. Time to GTFO.

And you change out the arms for new because it's so much less work you'd be nuts not to. But beater math says never put money into a beater.

The Corolla is really old. It's going into the 11th year on its current platform, having one major refresh in that timeframe, and content updates year to year. It's generally criticized for being noisy and slow, with numb steering. The JDM Corolla was new for 2012, but the English speaking world will have to wait at least until 2014. Some Corollas are built in Canada, so you can be proud to support your fellow countrymen, even though they're dirty non-union hippies.

The Cruze is very small inside. And it's a Chevrolet, designed by Daewoo, for the Asian market first. General Motors couldn't care less about local market fit and drivers - any Pontiac GTO owner can attest to that with their backwards radios - so I can't wear a hat in a Cruze. I wouldn't drive one again unless you paid me to.

The new Subaru Impreza is a lot more vanilla than the last one, and that's what Subaru is counting on to yield higher sales. Its styling is more Corolla than WRX, as is its chassis dynamic. It's slower and not so heavy duty as the last model, partly due to the evil CVT. Still, the lure of fulltime all wheel drive is sure to draw some buyers away from other players in the crowded field of compacts, as well it should. The only other AWD options under $18k are the Jeep Patriot and Suzuki Whatever, neither of which are good enough to stay players in the marketplace.

Toyota doesn't offer any actual incentives to indirect (dealer) employees, only TMS/TFS employees and plant workers and their families, so if that's you, jump on that. Those incentives are nice. (EDIT: Not nearly as good as GM incentives before the bailout. I don't know about current GM incentives.) Any dealer discount they tell you is friends and family is either all on the dealer or they're applying a fleet discount to your sale internally, which is normal. The fleet manager has a decent amount of room to do pretty much whatever he wants.

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Lingenfelter
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 2:57 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote

Dan wrote:
Don't put a penny into a beater Impala with transmission issues. Time to GTFO.

Yeah, I think it's worth consideration either way... spending a few car payment's worth to make it last another year is something I would think about.

Dan wrote:
And you change out the arms for new because it's so much less work you'd be nuts not to. But beater math says never put money into a beater.

Fair enough. I don't have a Haynes manual so I haven't considered how much work or difficulty it would be either way.

Dan wrote:
The Corolla is really old. It's going into the 11th year on its current platform, having one major refresh in that timeframe, and content updates year to year. It's generally criticized for being noisy and slow, with numb steering. The JDM Corolla was new for 2012, but the English speaking world will have to wait at least until 2014. Some Corollas are built in Canada, so you can be proud to support your fellow countrymen, even though they're dirty non-union hippies.

It doesn't really look old though. It is sort of an embarassing car since it appears to be driven solely by old people and women (I've never noticed someone in my age range driving one)

Dan wrote:
The Cruze is very small inside. And it's a Chevrolet, designed by Daewoo, for the Asian market first. General Motors couldn't care less about local market fit and drivers - any Pontiac GTO owner can attest to that with their backwards radios - so I can't wear a hat in a Cruze. I wouldn't drive one again unless you paid me to.

I didn't fit it that small inside, really. I fit and could run a manual, and I'm 6'4", 210lbs (34in. inseam) It is really quiet inside and seems to be favoured through awards and in print, though I've never really read into it very much.

Dan wrote:
The new Subaru Impreza is a lot more vanilla than the last one, and that's what Subaru is counting on to yield higher sales. Its styling is more Corolla than WRX, as is its chassis dynamic. It's slower and not so heavy duty as the last model, partly due to the evil CVT. Still, the lure of fulltime all wheel drive is sure to draw some buyers away from other players in the crowded field of compacts, as well it should. The only other AWD options under $18k are the Jeep Patriot and Suzuki Whatever, neither of which are good enough to stay players in the marketplace.

It's not an attractive car by any measure, but it has good storage capacity and it's useful dimensionally (42" passthru!). We're shopping strictly manual transmissions. They've redone the interior a bit to make the backseat a bit wider and slightly stretched the wheelbase. I was very close to buying one, a 2012 2.0i Touring.
Dodge/Pentastar products are very strictly off my list - Myself and family, inlaws have never had luck with them, aside from the wife's Neons (somehow, magically). And Suzuki doesn't make anything interesting that's legal on the road and has 4 wheels.

Dan wrote:
Toyota doesn't offer any actual incentives to indirect (dealer) employees, only TMS/TFS employees and plant workers and their families, so if that's you, jump on that. Those incentives are fantastic. Any dealer discount they tell you is friends and family is either all on the dealer or they're applying a fleet discount to your sale internally, which is normal. The fleet manager has a decent amount of room to do pretty much whatever he wants.

My brother is a plant worker and bought his wife a 2012 Corolla S with the automatic. It looks nice, but I've never driven it. I'll get my brother to have one priced to a spec I'd be happy with. I'm just not sure I want to be spotted in a Corolla Laughing

If I do buy, the AWD is a big selling point, since some winters here are really quite poor for driving. But the plant worker family discounts make the Cruze about 17k, not sure about the Toyota pricing. A 5,000 dollar price gap is pretty big for similarly equipped cars, AWD vs FWD aside.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 3:29 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote

The Rav4 4cyl AWD starts around $24k without incentives, and is a much, much better car than the Corolla. Quieter and easier to fit family, also made in Canada, and in a lot of markets it's an aspirational vehicle where the Scion xD or Daihatsu Terrios is marketed as the entry level Toyota crossover. Manual transmissions are fun and all, but some cars just aren't offered with them anymore. And that's a shame. Why limit yourself to just manuals in 4door people movers though - has that poor GM engineering soured you? 4door 4cyl people movers don't magically get fun just because you're the one doing the shifting - or your wife's the one burning the clutch up.

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Lingenfelter
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 5:35 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote

Haven't really been shopping suv/cuv type vehicles at all. I like cars and hatches, I always figured the extra weight and size would make suv/cuvs needlessly wasteful on gas and hard on suspension and wheel components.

I prefer manuals to autos, and if I'm buying new, getting an auto is just going to contribute to automatic sales... the reason manufacturers build them in the first place is because people will take them! The wife is much more practiced than I am in manual. She learned on it in her early teens and has never DD'd an automatic until I sold her s**t old Neon (too many miles, not worth the effort of reviving), which left her sharing my car.

Edit: The Impala also needs a new hub. I've had the trac/abs light on everytime I start the car since last fall.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 5:58 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote

I'm gonna go ahead and say it's time to move on. I was at the same point with the Monte Carlo. I could go back, I would have dumped the Monte Carlo before the transmission totally crapped out and then sucked almost 4k out of me over the last year...

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 6:29 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote

Went out and priced just some mid-range brakes and rotors, totalled 280 for front rotors and pads (monroe premium pads and wagner discs, both on sale).

I really don't want to get dragged into a huge parts bill just to get this thing into proper running condition, and I think that's how its going to end up.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 6:59 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote

Wow, the dealer will give you 4k for the impala. My dealer only was going to give me 1.5k.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 7:40 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote

98ss wrote:
Wow, the dealer will give you 4k for the impala. My dealer only was going to give me 1.5k.


I can't comment on the market in Michigan. Also consider this is Canadian dollars: the Rav4 Dan mentioned is 3,500 more in Canadian dollars than the same thing in the USA, and it's built 30 miles from my front door.

Trade-ins vary widely. GM would give me substantially more than Subaru: Subaru is not widely popular here, and the local Subie dealer scraps every car he takes for trade-in, so obviously he won't hand me much more than 500.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 11:59 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote

OK, I'll jump in. How reliable does your dd have to be? At almost 10 years old, little stuff is gonna happen that'll nickle and dime you to death even after you fix the big stuff.

I finally sold my '02 LSS with 264,000 miles when it needed more work (again) and I really needed something more reliable, but that's because I do 40k miles a year. outtothenines is enjoying it now, I hope. I really miss the car, but not the constant worrying about repairs.

I got a 2012 Cruze as a replacement, and I love it. It gets great gas mileage. If you go with a Cruze, definitely get the manual Eco. There are Eco owners out there getting better than 50 mpg on the highway as long as you keep your speed reasonable and don't drive with a lead foot. Stay away from the 2011's if going used though.

Either way, good luck!
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 6:14 am    Post subject:   Reply with quote

There aren't any pictures, but this thread will point you in the right direction on replacing your shift solenoids in your transmission-

http://www.naioa.com/v2/module.....mp;t=45671

If you're gonna do that, you might as well do everything else at the same time, because you'll have your front end half torn apart anyway. It's quoted as only taking about 5 hours to do just the solenoids, and you don't have to dig into the transmission.

The brake parts I got my ballpark estimate from were on www.jcwhitney.com, and were for mediocre parts, not bottom of the barrel. I personally went with Raybestos Advanced Technology ceramic brake pads when I did my F-body fronts, and am pleased with them making zero noise while simultaneously digging my seatbelt into my body. I went with cheap Roto-Tech drilled & slotted rotors, and probably would've went with a better brand if I did it again.

If you decide to keep the Impala, I highly recommend replacing every failed part with at least an OEM equivalent, if not an upgraded part. This ensures the part you replaced will last at least as long as the original, and you won't have to replace it a second time. I've replaced way too many parts with cheap knock-offs, only to replace again after 6 months, and cost more than originally buying a quality piece. Once again, weigh it out. Keeping the Impala on the road another 5 years will probably cost 1/4 the amount of buying a new car at the moment. By that time you should be more financially stable, and be able to get something better than a Corolla.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 9:08 am    Post subject:   Reply with quote

I know it'd be cheaper at this point to just replace the parts and try to make it last a while, but when something else pops up, it's just going to put the in the same situation I'm in now.

The worst part of this, is that the car isn't unreliable: It's never stranded me, and it runs ok, but I bet when I price the parts out, it's going to be a lot more than $635.

I'm going to call around today and see what I'm looking at to get parts alone: I can't have the car down for too long because the wife and I are running on one car, and she's on maternity leave with the baby.

We don't put a lot of miles on the car, maybe 15,000 a year with both of us driving it, but since it's our only one, can't have much downtime.

Parts price sourcing everything from the dealer is

Front Control Arm Bushings 2x37.20 =74.40
or-Front Crontrol Arms 2x336.25 =672.50
Front Tie Rod End 1x119.16 =119.16
Tires (I have 2 in garage) 2x20 =40.00 (installed and balanced)
Alignment 1x99.xx =99.00
Front Rotors 2x92.05 =184.10
Front Pads 1set =109.95 (Delco Ceramics)
Trans Fluid + Gasket ???? =????
Pressure Control Solenoid 1x92.89 =92.89

Subtotal (assuming arms, not bushings) =1317.16
Sales Tax 13% = 171.23

Total =1488.39

To be fair, I could get the wbodystore control arms and drop 565 out of that bill, minus whatever shipping and taxes would be levied on me shipping them over the border.

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