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growling/howling, noticeable at higher speeds
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tonglebeak
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 9:14 pm    Post subject:  growling/howling, noticeable at higher speeds Reply with quote

Aside from having a busted lim gasket that I hope to replace next week, I have another issue. When at city speeds, with foot off the gas, it sounds like air is blowing into the cabin around the glovebox area, but there's no air (hvac system is turned off as well). Foot on the throttle makes that sound go away, but it's then replaced with a loud growl (similar to what a cone intake sounds like when the motor is cold, only louder). At speeds 45+, with the foot off the throttle, you can still hear the blowing sound, but on top of it is a loud howl, similar to the noise some rwd vehicles make. Foot on the throttle replaces the howl with an even louder growl.

Shifting into neutral does NOT get rid of the sounds. The sounds will increase intensity as RPMs spike while shifting from 3rd/4th to neutral, and then fade when the engine is at idle speed. This applies to the air sound, as well as the howling (that eliminates the tranny).

This is driving me crazy. Affected by both vehicle speed as well as engine speed. I popped the hood tonight and played with the throttle. IAny ideas? 04 indy ss. If I can't find a specific problem, I hope to find it when I tear down the top end to replace the lim gaskets, or hope that it at least goes away. SC makes boost, no anomalies on the gauges, etc. 04 indy ss
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davidhoutz
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 8:42 am    Post subject:   Reply with quote

Silly question, but have you gone to the stealership and asked a guy in there what it might be?
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Bill58
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 10:55 am    Post subject:   Reply with quote

My first thought is a half shaft or wheel bearing.
Any way to safely coast at speed with engine off? This would eliminate and engine noise and keep the half shafts and wheel bearings in play.
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tonglebeak
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 10:36 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote

Did it twice with turning engine off while in drive, and turning off while in neutral. Sounds were there, including the air rushing noise and the low speed-related growling.

Note that the air-rushing noise spiked with RPMs when the car was shifted from drive to neutral (before engine was turned off).

To reiterate; howling/growling under load, some air-rushing noise when not under load (and correlates with rpm when shifting from d to n)
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Bill58
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2011 4:40 am    Post subject:   Reply with quote

-If the sound is there with the engine off and the car moving, that eliminates engine vacuum or boost as the cause. But the sound changes with engine load. If that's what you have I would look at the half-shafts. They turn if the car is moving and transmit the engine torque under load. Are the boots leaking grease?
-If you jack up the front of the car, so the tires aren't touching the ground, try to rock the tire with your hands at 6 and 12 o'clock. It should move none or very little. To much play = bad wheel bearings.
-You could also rotate the tires to see if the noise moves with a preticular tire.
*Disclaimer* Without hearing the noise this is just my guess.
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tonglebeak
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2011 8:50 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote

Well, webcam mics, as well as internal laptop mics, are garbage. You can barely hear anything car related. After thinking more, I'll change the description of the noises:

-Loud drone at higher speeds with throttle applied, accompanied with a low growl.
-Low growl is most noticeable by itself around the 30mph range
-Air blowing noise that happens when no throttle is applied, comes from the passenger side and can be thought of as a fan blowing into a plastic bag.

When I get daylight tomorrow, I'll check the passenger side to see if there's movement or anything.
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tonglebeak
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2011 4:35 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote

It's nice and rainy today! Love it!

Jacked up the right side. Grabbed 6-12 and tired to wiggle. There was a very small amount of play, and I'm not even sure if that was because the whole car was moving with me or if it really is a bearing. I spun the tire, and damn was it a workout to do that! Got it to about a revolution a second, and all I could hear was what sounded like either a grinding noise, or maybe the sound turning gears would make or something. Does this add any useful info?
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billy101
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2011 9:51 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote

tonglebeak wrote:
It's nice and rainy today! Love it!

Jacked up the right side. Grabbed 6-12 and tired to wiggle. There was a very small amount of play, and I'm not even sure if that was because the whole car was moving with me or if it really is a bearing. I spun the tire, and damn was it a workout to do that! Got it to about a revolution a second, and all I could hear was what sounded like either a grinding noise, or maybe the sound turning gears would make or something. Does this add any useful info?


You had just the passenger side front wheel jacked up and the driver side front wheel still on the ground? Explains why you had so much trouble turning the wheel.

_________________
2002 Impala LS 3.8 -121,749 miles 11/13/2011
2001 Impala LS 3.8 - 118,510 miles. 9/2/2011. RIP - 11/12/2011
2010 Malibu LTZ 3.6 - 16,014miles. 8/20/2011.
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tonglebeak
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2011 9:57 pm    Post subject: Snif !  Reply with quote

billy101 wrote:
tonglebeak wrote:
It's nice and rainy today! Love it!

Jacked up the right side. Grabbed 6-12 and tired to wiggle. There was a very small amount of play, and I'm not even sure if that was because the whole car was moving with me or if it really is a bearing. I spun the tire, and damn was it a workout to do that! Got it to about a revolution a second, and all I could hear was what sounded like either a grinding noise, or maybe the sound turning gears would make or something. Does this add any useful info?


You had just the passenger side front wheel jacked up and the driver side front wheel still on the ground? Explains why you had so much trouble turning the wheel.


Embarassed
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Bill58
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2011 9:37 am    Post subject: Snif !  Reply with quote

tonglebeak wrote:
billy101 wrote:
tonglebeak wrote:
It's nice and rainy today! Love it!

Jacked up the right side. Grabbed 6-12 and tired to wiggle. There was a very small amount of play, and I'm not even sure if that was because the whole car was moving with me or if it really is a bearing. I spun the tire, and damn was it a workout to do that! Got it to about a revolution a second, and all I could hear was what sounded like either a grinding noise, or maybe the sound turning gears would make or something. Does this add any useful info?


You had just the passenger side front wheel jacked up and the driver side front wheel still on the ground? Explains why you had so much trouble turning the wheel.


Embarassed

You're spinning the differential so gear noise is ok, grinding would not be good. Sounds like your wheel bearing is probably ok.
Does steering effect the noise?
How do the half shaft grease boots look?
Do the brakes effect the noise?
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tonglebeak
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2011 4:22 pm    Post subject: Snif !  Reply with quote

Bill58 wrote:
tonglebeak wrote:
billy101 wrote:
tonglebeak wrote:
It's nice and rainy today! Love it!

Jacked up the right side. Grabbed 6-12 and tired to wiggle. There was a very small amount of play, and I'm not even sure if that was because the whole car was moving with me or if it really is a bearing. I spun the tire, and damn was it a workout to do that! Got it to about a revolution a second, and all I could hear was what sounded like either a grinding noise, or maybe the sound turning gears would make or something. Does this add any useful info?


You had just the passenger side front wheel jacked up and the driver side front wheel still on the ground? Explains why you had so much trouble turning the wheel.


Embarassed

You're spinning the differential so gear noise is ok, grinding would not be good. Sounds like your wheel bearing is probably ok.
Does steering effect the noise?
How do the half shaft grease boots look?
Do the brakes effect the noise?


Boots were intact with no signs of grease falling out.
Steering does not affect the noise, nor do brakes.

I haven't had a chance to go back out today. It's been raining since before I woke up and snow's on its way now >Sad
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Bill58
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 9:41 am    Post subject:   Reply with quote

To check for a bad tire you could rotate tires to see if the noise follows, a 4 tire rotation.
A check for the half shafts is turn the wheel to almost full lock, trans in reverse, and give it some gas. A bad cv joint will give a click or pop sound.
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tonglebeak
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 9:59 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote

Did the reverse test with the wheel hard left..I'm hoping that popping sound is just the brakes letting go, even though I was slowly coasting back >_>

Any other tests I should to do confirm it's a bad cv? Not gonna lie, I've never done any work beyond tune ups/brakes on a car before, so this has me very antsy.

Regarding the prior noises, when the car was ice cold this morning, the noises were very faint/non existant, but as time went on, they returned (not sure if that helps out or not).
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Bill58
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2011 10:50 am    Post subject:   Reply with quote

Still might be worth your time to rotate the tires, tires can cause strange problems.
The www is full of cv trouble shooting tips. http://www.outercontrol.com.au.....nosis.html
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tonglebeak
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2011 9:11 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote

Bill58, I want ot thank you for all of yoru advice.

I'm going to brush off the rotation advice, and here's why:

I figured that hard left+reverse popping=bearing on the right, but for s**t and giggles I jacked up the left side for a moment after I got off work. The suspension itself makes quite a bit of noise, but I presume that's normal.

I did the 6-12 o'clock test, and, unlike the other side, there was absolutely without a doubt no question that there was play. Not only could I hear metal-metal contact, but I could feel it too (3-9 o clock had 0 play, and did not make any noises or feelings). I'm going to reverify lug nut torque tomorrow, although I highly doubt that's the issue now.

I';m goign to be ordering new bearings off ebay, since those are the cheapest. I think I'll go ahead and replace both at the same time. I'm presuming these are the correct bearings

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-FR.....l%3AImpala|Submodel%3ASS&vxp=mtr&hash=item4160343bd5#vi-ilComp
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