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3800 Performance & W Body Store Upper Poly Motor Mounts
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SS1AB
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2011 10:01 am    Post subject:  3800 Performance & W Body Store Upper Poly Motor Mounts Reply with quote

Just a quick question for all of you out there. I purchased a set of the upper polyurethane motor mounts some time back from 3800 Performance and installed them on my 2005 Impala LS. I also received a set of the poly mounts from the W Body store for free when I purchased something from them.

I installed the W Body Store ones on my 2002 Impala LS and I thought the dash was going to vibrate out of the car. I lived with this for a couple of days and decided that I would buy another set from 3800 Performance as they did not do this.

Last weekend I decided that I would swap the mounts from the 2005 into the 2002. After removing the nut from the through bolt I could not get the bolt to come out. I beat on it with a plastic hammer and it would not budge. I had to remove the whole mount from the car and place it in a vise and was then able to pound out the bolt. Upon closer inspection I noticed that the center tube had "mushroomed" on one end and was slightly bent.

I e-mailed 3800 Performance and their response was that they had sold thousands of these with out any problems. I torqued the bolts to the specified factory setting of 38 foot pounds. They said I had a broken mount somewhere else that caused this issue.

Just to make sure that it was not my fault I installed one of the new ones on the same car (2005) and torqued it to the factory setting of 38 foot pounds without starting the engine. I then tried to remove the bolt and had the very same issue with the center tube deforming.

I sent pictures to 3800 Perfomance and they have so far chosen not to respond back to me.

Their center tube has about 1/4 the wall thickness of the W Body Stores and the Intense Racing's poly mount.

If you have the 3800 Performance mounts you may want to check them to see if yours have done the same thing that mine did..

Their installation instructions gave no torque specs for their mounts so that is why I used the factory ones.

I would not buy these again as they do not stand behind their product. It would be different had they specified a lower torque number on the installation instructions but they do not. I am out $150 to them with no offer to take these back or even a store credit of some kind from them to purchase something else.


Last edited by SS1AB on Fri Aug 19, 2011 8:05 pm; edited 1 time in total
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IffyG
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2011 10:47 am    Post subject:   Reply with quote

Are you talking something like this?


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SS1AB
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2011 12:40 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote

That looks almost identical to the three that I have. One of mine is really smashed bad.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2011 12:49 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote

Sorry to break the news to you, but you over tightened them and that's why they mushroomed on you. Before I had a quality torque wrench, I was using a Harbor Freight POS and that's what did mine in...

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2011 1:24 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote

Torque wrenches are supposed to be checked annually to ensure they are not falling out of specification.

You could take yours in to have it checked, but I would suspect, like Iffy, that there is an issue with the wrench.

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SS1AB
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2011 2:42 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote

Well I considered that and here is what I did. The first set was torqued using my Craftsman torque wrench. The second set (third tube) was torqued using my neighbors Snap-On torque wrench. His (professional mechanic) is calibrated yearly (two months ago) so I find it hard to believe that both were that far out as to do what was described here.

If you look at their center tube it is "whimpy" compared to the stock piece. W Body Store's, Intense Racing's, and some of the other's that are out there all have much heavier tubes that are closer to the stock ones.

I thought about trying to have these drilled out to accept a thicker walled tube but polyurethane is a B-I-itch to drill. You just can not keep the hole straight. I ordered a set of mounts from Intense Racing. From what I have read in other posts these are very good pieces with very little vibration.

I believe that stainless, while rust resistant, is softer than most mild steel.
I sent an e-mail to an engineer friend of mine regarding this and will share what he says in another post.

I know opinions are like "you know whats" , but as far as I am concerned, these are very poorly designed and would not purchase or recommend them to anyone.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2011 2:51 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote

Just go to the hardware store with the bolt and your mounts and get some copper tube of the same size. That's what I did 2 years ago and haven't had any issues since. Worst case scenario, I cut another few segments of copper pipe and replace it.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2011 3:07 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote

I would think that copper would be even softer (I am not an engineer or metalurgist, nor do I pretend to be one). Did you torque them to 38 foot pounds afterwards?
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2011 3:10 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote

It's definitely a softer material, but as long as you don't crank the hell out of the bolts, it does just fine. I tighten the bolts just enough to pinch the sides of the mounts. I had them out a few weeks ago when I did my VC gaskets and they looked just the same as the had before. I was most concerned about them developing a patina on them, but they looks like I had just put them in.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2011 3:18 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote

So I guess that you did not torque them to the factory specs and just made them "snug". Roughly, about how many miles would you say you have driven since you did the "copper tubes"? Thanks for your insight on this. It is still disappointing to me that a company would not stand behind what they sell. If they want you to use a lower torque setting they should say so in their instructions.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2011 3:26 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote

It's not their fault that we overtightened the bolts. It's pretty obvious that you are doing something you probably shouldn't when you are starting to deform the dog bones (I had to use the bolt trick to get the mounts back on after I replaced the tubes). I've probably driven 15k miles with the copper tubes in place. I make a habit of double checking the bolts under the hood when I'm in there, but they haven't backed out since I started using the copper tubes.

As far as the torque setting comment, you are in the vast minority if you use a torque wrench. I'm willing to be that 90% of the W-body community (especially the Grand Prix boards) doesn't own a torque wrench and just uses German torque specs on everything...

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2011 8:03 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote

As far as deforming the dog bones goes, the ones that were on the first set of mounts that the tubes "deformed" on slipped right onto the second set of mounts that I purchased. I did not have to spread them apart to make them fit. Just lucky I guess.

I guess you are a little more forgiving than I am. I feel if you sell something for an application that is installed differently than the original you should be specific about what those differences are (i.e. torque specs).

For anyone who is interested, I heard back from my engineer friend about stainless versus mild steel. He told me that stainless steel has a higher tensile strength (42,000 PSI) than mild steel (35,000 PSI). So I guess I was wrong about that. It seems that they were headed in the right direction but should have chosen a tube with at least twice the wall thickness than they did.

I am going to install the Intense Racing ones on my 2005 to see how those work. I have some ideas about making slight modifications to the ones that failed to see if I can make them work for my 2002. If the mods work I will post it here and let you know what I did....
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2011 8:07 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote

So how many "extra" sets do you have now? I could use some poly bushings Wink

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how do the dealer's expect us to get the cars there if they don 't run at all?


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SS1AB
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2011 8:18 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote

I have two sets of the ones from 3800 performance and one set that came from the W Body store. I only have one good tube for the 3800 performance ones which I need to keep as a reference for length and ID to do my modifications.

I am not sure I would want to sell any right now if that is what you are asking. The W Body store ones were just transfering way to much vibration back through the steering wheel and dash.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2011 9:20 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote

SS1AB wrote:
I have two sets of the ones from 3800 performance and one set that came from the W Body store. I only have one good tube for the 3800 performance ones which I need to keep as a reference for length and ID to do my modifications.

I am not sure I would want to sell any right now if that is what you are asking. The W Body store ones were just transfering way to much vibration back through the steering wheel and dash.


Ive heard on the gp forums the samething that the zzp and 3800 are the "better" ones.

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