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Car woud not start. Now FPR or else (Fuel Pressure 52psi)?
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shengang1203
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 8:18 pm    Post subject:  Car woud not start. Now FPR or else (Fuel Pressure 52psi)? Reply with quote

This afternoon when I wanted to go home, the car would not start. It cranked but just that.

This happened several times. Previously after some hours, it would start again. I will check back tomorrow morning to see if it could start at that time.

Please listen to this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImNLL-An_IQ

Do you have any idea of the problem? Spark plugs/wires? Or starter? Battery? Or fuel line?

Update 2:

Today I replaced all of the wires and plugs but the car failed to start again. We tested the spark plugs and my buddy told me that the sparks showed a yellow color (Good one supposed to be blue and white), which indicates the weak sparking. Probably the coil pack or other ignition module is bad?

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Last edited by shengang1203 on Wed Aug 17, 2011 10:09 am; edited 4 times in total
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Frank4202
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 9:58 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote

So its trying to start meaning its either a fuel or spark problem. I'd say your battery and starter motor are fine. Have you checked the fuel pressure? I'd start there. Sounds like a fuel pump.

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shengang1203
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 9:11 am    Post subject:   Reply with quote

Sorry for the lack of knowledge.

How do I check the fuel pressure?

I recalled that when I first tried to start it, it started but immediately went off. Then no luck starting any more.

Any possibility of blown head gasket?

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chibiblacksheep
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 9:18 am    Post subject:   Reply with quote

Try to give it gas if you can get it started for a split second to see if the IAC is failing the idle.

If it was the headgasket it would start and you would see a lot of smoke.

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shengang1203
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 9:24 am    Post subject:   Reply with quote

chibiblacksheep wrote:
Try to give it gas if you can get it started for a split second to see if the IAC is failing the idle.

If it was the headgasket it would start and you would see a lot of smoke.


I tried to give it gas while cranking with no luck. As you described, it should not be the head gasket problem.

I will replace the spark plugs and wire set also, because it is already at 156k.

Any procedure to check the fuel pressure?

By the way, in the past two months, it happened about 5 times. But it would start after sitting for a couple of hours. Why was that?

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shengang1203
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 10:53 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote

It appears to me that most likely the engine is blooded. I took out a spark plug and smelled a lot of gas.

I tried to step the gas pedal all the way down while starting but it still could not start. I also tried to take out the fuel injector fuse but no luck yet.

Any other way to get rid of the flooding issue?

I plan to replace all the spark plugs. Do you think that would help?

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shengang1203
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2011 7:43 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote

Update:

Finally, the car started. For the past several days, I have tried each day. Today, I managed to replace the front 3 plugs and wires (back ones are really tough). The car still did not start. I took the battery to Advance Auto Parts and it had no problem. I put it back but still failed.

I tried once more. This time I took the fuel pump relay out and cranked. Then I put the relay back and tried again. It STARTED! Although not that smooth.

So what do you think the problem is? Flooded engine?

Is it okay now to leave the wires as is for a few days? It is raining and I may have to wait to replace them later (maybe one week later).

Another question:

I bought the 726UU from RockAuto. I changed the front three wires today and found out they are longer than the existing ones. However, the existing ones are by Delphi, not AC Delco. So I am wondering whether the 726UU I bought is the correct length or not. The Delphi wires are numbered but the 726UU I bought is not.

By the way, since the length is different. I cannot simply compare them to pick the right one.

Is the #6 longest, #2 shorter, and the #4 next?

***************************************************************************
Questions:

I am reading a few articles here.

(1) http://easyautodiagnostics.com.....test_1.php

This article mentions that: "Before starting the tests you must first check and verify that: There's NO SPARK present at any of the coil towers. This is important since if you have spark coming out of all of the Ignition Coils, the Ignition Module is good. Now if you need to just test the Ignition Coils, go to: GM Coil Pack Test (3.1 & 3.4 V-6 Engines)" . I did see the SPARK so the ignition module is good?

(2) http://easyautodiagnostics.com.....acks_1.php

This article is to test the coil pack. But it says "Before we go on, let me tell you that this article only tests for a BAD ignition coil pack(s) and is geared more toward solving a Misfire Condition in which the car (or minivan or truck if you're driving an Isuzu) starts and runs but runs with a Misfire. If your vehicle does not start and you need to test the Ignition Control Module (ICM) or the Crankshaft Position Sensor on this type of Direct Ignition System".

So the coil pack is not related to the no-starting problem?

I am confused now.

***************************************************************************

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 11:48 am    Post subject:   Reply with quote

Quote:
I tried once more. This time I took the fuel pump relay out and cranked. Then I put the relay back and tried again. It STARTED! Although not that smooth.


It seems to me that the vehicle was flooded. By pulling the fuel pump relay, and cranking, you cleared most of the excess gasoline from the cylinders. Rough starting is always a symptom after flooding your engine, unless you wait a day or two after clearing the engine.

A good way to check if your fuel pump is bad is by turning the ignition of your vehicle to "ON" while outside of the vehicle. You should be able to hear the fuel pump turn on, then off when standing near the gas tank.

As for electrical problems, I am not too familiar with testing coil packs, but you should be able to test each spark plug for spark. This is done by removing the spark plug from the cylinder, and holding the side of the spark plug to the engine (not the threaded part). Have a friend crank the vehicle, while you watch for spark. Make sure not to touch the spark plug itself while doing this, or else your arm will feel really funny! I would also remove the fuel pump relay for this test, so you don't flood the engine again. If you test each spark plug, and each receives spark, you "should" have a fine electrical system. If no spark then check the basics:

1. Are the spark plugs gapped correctly?
2. Are the wires fully plugged in?
3. Is the spark plug making good contact with the engine?

You can probably test the coils by simplifying this test. Take a good wire & plug, and plug one end into a coil tower, and hold the spark plug on the engine. while a friend cranks. This way, you can test each and every coil, and see if any are giving weaker spark, or no spark compared to the other coils. If they are all giving weak spark, or no spark, then your ignition module should be at fault.

If your engine is still running rough, check to make sure that your spark plug wires did not get crossed, and change your firing order. I did this on a truck a few years ago, and couldn't figure out why it ran different after changing plugs & wires, until I retraced all my wires, and found I crossed 2 of them.
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shengang1203
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 1:11 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote

Thanks for the input.

I tried once more for the fuel pump relay but it did not help. I could hear the fuel pump sound at "ON". So I think most likely the ignition module or the coil pack has some issues.

My friend also has a 2003 Impala. Can I safely use his coil pack and ignition module to test?

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 3:20 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote

Fuel pump should be fine then, if you hear it kick on, and it flooded your engine before, i would definitely rule it out. As for your friend's coil pack and ignition module, I would assume they're the same, as long as he also has a 3.4. Try taking your coil packs off, and putting them on his. If his doesn't start, you know what the problem is. If his does, then go for the ignition module. If you get yours running again, and it still sounds rough, take another video & post it! That might make it a little easier for others to diagnose.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2011 6:08 am    Post subject:   Reply with quote

Quote:
the existing ones are by Delphi, not AC Delco
Delphi is A/C delco. That is the new name. I would not throw anymore new parts at the car that is just a waste of money. No matter what color the plugs are , as long as they are not wet , they should start the car. If it were me I would take the air intake off, exposing the throttle body. I would have someone crank the car and then I would squirt some SENSOR SAFE carb cleaner in the throttle body.. if the car starts it's a good bet it is your fueling. When was the last time you changed your fuel filter ? could be clogged. If it is a 3.4L it is easy to change one end unsrews the other has a clip, on the end that unscrews don't forget to use a backup wrench to protect the fuel line. If the fuel filter has never been replaced it will need that sooner or later anyway with over 150k. You take the fuel pressure reading off the shrader valve on the passenger side of the fuel rail , I think it is real close to the serpentine belt. GM makes a really expensive 90 elbow . I just have a $25 fuel pressure guage from harbor freight tools w/o the 90 elbow ...and am really really careful that the serpentine belt does not rip the fuel gauge off. Also could be your exhaust is plugged up, the cat usually...try removing the ox sensor and see if it will start. KD tools make an engine tilter you can put in place of one of the dog bone engine mounts , have to remove the other, it will allow the engine to tilt forward so you can work on the plugs / ox sensor.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2011 9:07 am    Post subject:   Reply with quote

VIKING wrote:
Quote:
the existing ones are by Delphi, not AC Delco
If it were me I would take the air intake off, exposing the throttle body. I would have someone crank the car and then I would squirt some SENSOR SAFE carb cleaner in the throttle body..


I would try this.

Quote:
if the car starts it's a good bet it is your fueling. When was the last time you changed your fuel filter ? could be clogged.


Most likely the fuel filter was never changed but I am not sure. Once a garage tried to replace that but said it was too hard to do that because it might damage the fuel line because of the aging.

It has been raining these days and I do not have a garage to work in so I have to wait...

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2011 9:16 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote

Quote:
Once a garage tried to replace that but said it was too hard to do that because it might damage the fuel line because of the aging.



If in fact the fuel lines are that bad...you need to get them replaced. I think the fuel pressure is around 25 - 30 psi. Even a small leak will squirt a fine mist or stream several feet. More than likely the garage did not want to do the job for whatever reason..don't go back to them ever again. you can also test for a spark by sticking a removed spark plug in it's removed boot and laying it on any grounded surface, like the engine and crank the car over. especially at night you will see a spark. K/D and Lysle both make a spark plug looking device that has a ground clip that supports the device...much better than using a plug...the Impala plugs are so delicate on the center electrode.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2011 9:23 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote

VIKING wrote:

If in fact the fuel lines are that bad...you need to get them replaced. I think the fuel pressure is around 25 - 30 psi.


I agree with the fact that your fuel lines need to be replaced if they are so bad a shop would change the filter. As far as the fuel pressure, I dealt with some issues that I thought might be fuel pressure related and IIRC the fuel pressure with the key on,engine off should be in the mid to high 50s.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 10:53 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote

Quote:
engine off should be in the mid to high 50s

your right just looked it up 52-59 psi...that is at the fuel rail.... The engine is off, The fuel pump is commanded on with the tech2. Th e fuel pressure is slightly higher than actually what the injectors need. He could have a bad regulator ..to add to the list. I think the shop was not using a backup wrench to remove the fuel filer and when they wrenched the nut on the FF the line did what ever.

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