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Supercharging - advantages

 
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LSdriver
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 5:22 pm    Post subject:  Supercharging - advantages Reply with quote

Just wondering how much of a gain in HP you might get from supercharging a 2003 3800 LS and how much greater is the fuel consumption.

For interests sake.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 5:34 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote

Best case... approx 45HP (At the crank, about 35 at the wheels)

Fuel consumption will not increase drastically if you stay out of it... you'll likely suck down alot more fuel because you won't keep your foot out of it

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 5:34 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote

thanks, good to know.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 9:30 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote

what BBE said is true, but also keep in mind..a S/c 3800 has more POTENTIAL than a NA 3800..in otherwords doing other mods such as rockers, headers, etc. is not as great on a NA engine as doing them on the SC engine

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 10:31 pm    Post subject:  Re: Supercharging - advantages Reply with quote

LSdriver wrote:
Just wondering how much of a gain in HP you might get from supercharging a 2003 3800 LS and how much greater is the fuel consumption.

For interests sake.


Well also the fuel consumption is higher because the stock supercharger doesn't really show any positive boost on the gauge until your in the upper RPM's or WOT. Meaning your accelerating. Well you don't accelerate everywhere, so 95% your cruising and the supercharger is not providing positive boost but is parasitic to the engine hence why it gets 2-4 MPG less and sometimes even worse than that verses the Base and LS models. Oh and i takes premium gas only, so expect to pay more. I would venture to say the HP gain from the stock supercharger is negligible. 40 Hp but how much HP does it take to turn the pulley, do you have the A/C on or off, and ambient temp? I think a correctly modded 38000 could out perform a stock L67. So if you do go the supercharger route plan on dropping some $$ and also for a tranny.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 11:19 pm    Post subject:  Re: Supercharging - advantages Reply with quote

spacewalker404 wrote:
Well also the fuel consumption is higher because the stock supercharger doesn't really show any positive boost on the gauge until your in the upper RPM's or WOT. Meaning your accelerating. Well you don't accelerate everywhere, so 95% your cruising and the supercharger is not providing positive boost but is parasitic to the engine hence why it gets 2-4 MPG less and sometimes even worse than that verses the Base and LS models.


The fuel consumption is higher because in boost you are commanding a much richer AFR than N/A , and you are moving a ton more air. If you stay out of boost you are not going to notice a significant drop in MPG's.

Quote:
I would venture to say the HP gain from the stock supercharger is negligible. 40 Hp but how much HP does it take to turn the pulley.


This is quite possibly the stupidest thing I've read on this forum in quite sometime.

Quote:
I think a correctly modded 38000 could out perform a stock L67.


At what cost? A highly modified NA 3800 will just barely sneak by a stock L67.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 11:42 pm    Post subject:  Re: Supercharging - advantages Reply with quote

nightryder wrote:

Quote:
I would venture to say the HP gain from the stock supercharger is negligible. 40 Hp but how much HP does it take to turn the pulley.


This is quite possibly the stupidest thing I've read on this forum in quite sometime.


I'm going to have to agree with Nightryder. See if you can track down a GTP or something with an L67 and drive it back to back with an L36 car. Trust me, the difference is noticeable.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 2:59 am    Post subject:   Reply with quote

bbengineer wrote:
you'll likely suck down alot more fuel because you won't keep your foot out of it

BBEngineer


x100 Laughing

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 8:32 pm    Post subject:  Re: Supercharging - advantages Reply with quote

nightryder wrote:
spacewalker404 wrote:
Well also the fuel consumption is higher because the stock supercharger doesn't really show any positive boost on the gauge until your in the upper RPM's or WOT. Meaning your accelerating. Well you don't accelerate everywhere, so 95% your cruising and the supercharger is not providing positive boost but is parasitic to the engine hence why it gets 2-4 MPG less and sometimes even worse than that verses the Base and LS models.


The fuel consumption is higher because in boost you are commanding a much richer AFR than N/A , and you are moving a ton more air. If you stay out of boost you are not going to notice a significant drop in MPG's.


I stand corrected and totally agreed to staying out of boost, but when you pass someone on the highway your going to get into boost. Thats why I was mentioning that you could get worse. Unless you accelerate slowly your going to get into boost depending on your acceleration. And who doesn't want to go into boost Smile

nightryder wrote:
Quote:
I would venture to say the HP gain from the stock supercharger is negligible. 40 Hp but how much HP does it take to turn the pulley.


This is quite possibly the stupidest thing I've read on this forum in quite sometime.


well, I guess I thinking that you can make up 40 HP on a N/A engine through a tune and mods at WOT. I do not have one so I apologize for the assumption. You have to be at WOT to really get the extra 40 HP and torque. Which we do not do all the time to fully use the supercharger because you will use more fuel. Which is the original question was asked.

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LSdriver wrote:
Just wondering how much of a gain in HP you might get from supercharging a 2003 3800 LS and how much greater is the fuel consumption. For interests sake

I took it as HP vs. less MPG. In my opinion I would not recommend it unless you really serious about accelerating and not too worried about the MPG to the tank.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 8:40 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote

You are missing some important items...

You always quote max horsepower, not horsepower at a particular point. The 3800 NA makes 200HP from the factory (that's peak horsepower at the crank) and the 3800 SC (Gen3 SC) makes 240HP from the factory (again, peak HP at the crank). Since the 3800 NA has a slightly higher compression ratio, you get a little more than 40 peak HP gain. The parasitic loss associated w/ the supercharger are already built into those factory numbers. When you aren't generating boost, the Boost Bypass Valve opens so that the drag created by the SC pulley is minimal (similar to the AC clutch when the AC compressor is disengaged)

As far as the gear ratio, the LS actually has a better gear ratio for acceleration ( 3.05 FDR) than the supercharged SS (2.93 FDR). The 3800 NA isn't well suited to modding as it takes huge mods to make modest HP gains compared to the 3800 SC (since most mods you do allow you to shrink the pulley and generate more boost safely)

And realistically, you are talking about 1-2 MPG difference from the LS to the SS (in stock form). PBSS had an LS and went to an SS and that's what he reported (almost exclusively city driving)

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 8:52 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote

Huh, I now know. My questions have been answered, thanks for clearing things up.

bbengineer wrote:
You are missing some important items...

You always quote max horsepower, not horsepower at a particular point. The 3800 NA makes 200HP from the factory (that's peak horsepower at the crank) and the 3800 SC (Gen3 SC) makes 240HP from the factory (again, peak HP at the crank). Since the 3800 NA has a slightly higher compression ratio, you get a little more than 40 peak HP gain. The parasitic loss associated w/ the supercharger are already built into those factory numbers. When you aren't generating boost, the Boost Bypass Valve opens so that the drag created by the SC pulley is minimal (similar to the AC clutch when the AC compressor is disengaged)

As far as the gear ratio, the LS actually has a better gear ratio for acceleration ( 3.05 FDR) than the supercharged SS (2.93 FDR). The 3800 NA isn't well suited to modding as it takes huge mods to make modest HP gains compared to the 3800 SC (since most mods you do allow you to shrink the pulley and generate more boost safely)

And realistically, you are talking about 1-2 MPG difference from the LS to the SS (in stock form). PBSS had an LS and went to an SS and that's what he reported (almost exclusively city driving)

BBEngineer

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 11:55 am    Post subject:  Re: Supercharging - advantages Reply with quote

spacewalker404 wrote:
I stand corrected and totally agreed to staying out of boost, but when you pass someone on the highway your going to get into boost. Thats why I was mentioning that you could get worse. Unless you accelerate slowly your going to get into boost depending on your acceleration. And who doesn't want to go into boost Smile


With the right tune and driving habits there is no need to get deep into boost to pass someone. My AFR in boost is set to gradually get richer the more boost I see. at 1-3psi my AFR is low 13's high 12's and it is more than enough to pass someone at a reasonable rate. That little jab of the throttle isn't enough to warrant a significant MPG decrease.

Quote:
I took it as HP vs. less MPG. In my opinion I would not recommend it unless you really serious about accelerating and not too worried about the MPG to the tank.


Again, with the right tune and driving habits it's not going to be worse. I averaged 31 MPG on a thruway trip last year after I did my swap...an increase of roughly 4 MPG when I was NA.

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