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PCM question for those that know.

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    NAIOA Impala Forums Forum Index -> 2000-2005 PCM/Engine Computer
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pdxgtp
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 12:38 pm    Post subject:  PCM question for those that know. Reply with quote

Hello,
I received a 2000 Impala that had a 3.4 in it originally but the previous owner blew the motor and paid good money to have someone install an L67.
Now I located a wireharness for a 2000 Impala with the 3.8 (L36) and I can convert it for the rest of the boost bypass stuff etc.

My question is,..
What will be missing, the car does not have onstar, which would have been BCM anyway.
The car does not have ABS, which I kind of suprised.
But will air bags work? does the PCM talk to the BCM?
and I'm thinking the dash should work, its the same old 0~5vdc reference signal for most of the other stuff.

Thanks in advance for chiming in.
later,

Thomas

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 12:46 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote

Did the trans get swapped as well? (This matters)

What PCM are you planning on using? (The 2000 or an 04+ Impala/Monte L67 PCM) (This also matters)

Airbags are controlled by the SDM which is independent of the PCM

The dash (cluster) doesn't use the 5v ref signals, it's all done over the Class2 bus via the PCM

BBEngineer

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 11:18 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote

Hello and thanks for the reply.

I haven't decided what PCM to put in it yet, I have two 1998 Pontiac Grand Prix GTP PCM's, L67 of course and I have a 1999 Pontiac Grand Prix GTP PCM.
It looks like it has an L36 harness on it right now because of the location of the map sensor which has a pig-tail on it, probably to get it to the back of the motor, which it doesn't need to be.
Let's see....
It has two sets of wires that go down to the starter, one is attached to the fuse box, its stock and I hope to just use it. The other one seems to be, or looks like its part of the harness on the motor right now.

I have found some misc harnesses not plugged into anything, I'llhave to sort them out too. Because it doesn't have an ABS unit, I imagine that one of the harnesses on the other side of the engine bay is not used, maybe the unused harness I found over by the battery tray.
Yes, the trans is a 4T65-E-HD, yep, it has the large diff cover.

Morad parts co. has a 2000 Impala harness for a 3.8, its an L36 harness of course but at least it will plug into the pig tails that feed wires into the fuse box.
I might seek out a harness and PCM for any supercharged late model Impala.

I'm still gaining information about the as-built condition of the motor and harness and hopefully by the weekend I can make a decision about what I'm going to do.

Looking at your post, you're recommending a 04+ impala or Monte harness because that's when GM started using the L67 motors in them.. I'll start doing some searches.

Thanks,

BTW, Nice rides..
My others are my 1998 GTP, as seen in siggy, and my 2000 FRC C5 Corvette and the wife's car is a 2000 Pontiac Montana.

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whitelightnin04MC
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 5:08 am    Post subject:   Reply with quote

So the transmission is the 2000 4t65e that came with the car? If so, it's not an HD one. If it is an HD trans, you need to find out what year it is.

In order to do an L67 swap in the 2000 Impala, you'll need a 2004+ transmission and a 2004-2005 Impala SS bin file.

The 2000 transmission won't function properly with the 2004 bin file since the pressure switch plate in the transmission is completely different between the 2000-2003 and the 2004+ transmissions.

You can't use a GTP bin file because the communication is lost between the pcm and bcm or something to that effect. In the end, you wind up with no airbags.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 11:19 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote

whitelightnin04MC wrote:
So the transmission is the 2000 4t65e that came with the car? If so, it's not an HD one. If it is an HD trans, you need to find out what year it is. .
Well.. I'm not sure what year the trans is.
Quote:
In order to do an L67 swap in the 2000 Impala, you'll need a 2004+ transmission and a 2004-2005 Impala SS bin file. .
You seem pretty sure about that.

Quote:
The 2000 transmission won't function properly with the 2004 bin file since the pressure switch plate in the transmission is completely different between the 2000-2003 and the 2004+ transmissions. Pressure Switch Plate?

Are you suggesting the pressure control solenoid is different? The GM part number for the valve body is the same, the solenoid is $29.00 the biggest PITA is changing it. Thanks tho- I'll look into the differences in the trans.

Quote:
You can't use a GTP bin file because the communication is lost between the pcm and bcm or something to that effect. In the end, you wind up with no airbags.
Interesting, I guess I'll go look at the car and see if it has airbags, I was very suprised to see that it did not have ABS.

- This is the condition the car was in when I received it, I'll get with the guy that put all that stuff in the car and see if I can find out as many details as possible.

This is all sounding kind of complicated, I'm leaning on just gettung the 2000 impala L36 harness and PCM and just tuning it right. other than not having boost bypass it will run fine, I've done that a few times before but never with an impala, this is my first impala project. I noticd you guys have a knowledge base and an RPO breakdown.. I'll have some time to see if this car had on-star etc... This car doesn't have to be mint for any reason, just running well.

Thanks for the insights,

This car looks like it will be pretty easy as long as the motor and trans are actually good.
While cleaning up under the hood and sorting out the wire harness stuff I found that neither of the heater hoses are connected.
The power steering lines are also not connected, there cut.
I'll keep cleaning it up and get the existing harnesses & stuff off it.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 11:24 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote

The trans changed drastically in 03 and an 00-02 PCM will NOT work with an 03+ trans and an 00-02 trans will not work with an 03+ PCM... the pressure switch circuits are completely different

The GTP PCM and the SDM apparantly don't play together, so air bags become an issue... and all Impalas have front air bags (side bags were optional)... you really should use an Impala/Monte PCM

If you are going to use an 04+ PCM, you have to use an 04+ engine harness and you need to swap the O2 sensors for the 04+ style sensors (or use a HPTuners/DHP PowerTunr to delete all of the O2 heater codes)

If you are going to use the 2000 L36 Harness and Impala/Monte PCM, you must use an 00-02 tranny (and lose the BBV solenoid control ). You will also need to modify a bunch of tables for the L67

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 11:54 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote

Excellent replys Gentlemen.. I appreciate it. Wink

Ok, so I'm trying to figure out what trans it has first.
Then we go from there.

- and its a bummer I can't use this GTP stuff that I already own, laying around.. waiting to be used. Laughing

Later,

The last time I was in a running impala was years ago, it was a rental. and That was the one and only time. It will be a good when this car's engine turns over and runs.

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PostPosted: Sat May 01, 2010 11:01 am    Post subject:   Reply with quote

whitelightnin04MC wrote:

In order to do an L67 swap in the 2000 Impala, you'll need a 2004+ transmission and a 2004-2005 Impala SS bin file.

The 2000 transmission won't function properly with the 2004 bin file since the pressure switch plate in the transmission is completely different between the 2000-2003 and the 2004+ transmissions.

You can't use a GTP bin file because the communication is lost between the pcm and bcm or something to that effect. In the end, you wind up with no airbags.


1. why cant you just copy the FAST tables (fuel, air, spark, timing) from a 98+ gtp and swap them with your tables, leaving the majority of the Impala stuff alone

2. The solution would be just build the 00 trans and alter the tables you need to (ie gear ration, shift points etc)

3. you can copy certain elements from the GTP bin (see #1), but you cant get a away w a full write from a gtp bin....

Last time I was on the powertuner forum IIRC there were some 00+ Impala topswap bins, you may want to start there....

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bbengineer
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PostPosted: Sat May 01, 2010 11:39 am    Post subject:   Reply with quote

Because without a Hybrid L36 file (support for a hybrid file is spotty at best), you lose BBV solenoid support and the ability to VE tune and set IFR in boost...

if those things don't matter to you, then you can do whatever you want

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Last edited by bbengineer on Sat May 01, 2010 12:21 pm; edited 1 time in total
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whitelightnin04MC
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PostPosted: Sat May 01, 2010 11:52 am    Post subject:   Reply with quote

04DetroitLS wrote:
whitelightnin04MC wrote:

In order to do an L67 swap in the 2000 Impala, you'll need a 2004+ transmission and a 2004-2005 Impala SS bin file.

The 2000 transmission won't function properly with the 2004 bin file since the pressure switch plate in the transmission is completely different between the 2000-2003 and the 2004+ transmissions.

You can't use a GTP bin file because the communication is lost between the pcm and bcm or something to that effect. In the end, you wind up with no airbags.


1. why cant you just copy the FAST tables (fuel, air, spark, timing) from a 98+ gtp and swap them with your tables, leaving the majority of the Impala stuff alone

2. The solution would be just build the 00 trans and alter the tables you need to (ie gear ration, shift points etc)

3. you can copy certain elements from the GTP bin (see #1), but you cant get a away w a full write from a gtp bin....

Last time I was on the powertuner forum IIRC there were some 00+ Impala topswap bins, you may want to start there....


Because of what BBE said. I think I would know what you can and can't do, considering I have a 2001 and I was researching a top swap. You can do what you are saying to do, but it's nowhere as safe and reliable as having properly functioning engine management.

FWIW, ZZP and most of the other vendors sell PCMs for top swaps. If you have a 00-02 or 03, whichever have the older style trans, the vendors just use the L36 bin file and modify it to work with a top swapped car. I asked ZZP a bunch of questions and Turbo Tim basically didn't have any intelligent answers about how to deal with the issues of top swapping a pre 2004 car.

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PostPosted: Sat May 01, 2010 4:08 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote

I'm still looking to gain good information about that trans.. its in progress.

I think loosing BBV and some IFR flexiability is no problem considering this car has an MAF so it can be tuned..
- but I like having the ability to VE tune because that's how to straighten out crappy idle problems on heavly modded cars and I think this motor has a fat cam in it.
That's just part of the mix right now..

In the Chandler Arizona I am the late model GM V6 tuner and tuning these motors is no problem. I tend to speed density tune the car first then cal the MAF.

Bummer to hear that Tim Beek didn't have much insight on top swap tunes.. no prob tho.
I'll check out ZZP's site because they might have some critical info.

For the most part I'd liek to have the DMV be able to plug into the car during the emmisions test and see the correct vin, which I'll change and the vin change also changes the engine data displayed, it will change a Grand Prix to a impala. The question is... is the two PCM's the same basic GM part number before they get flashed. It didn't have a PCM in it when I got it. I haven't even seen a stock Impala PCM to even know if they look alike etc. ugh.. something else to look at.

I'm still making hand on progress too, I should take some pictures.

Thanks guys, excellent responses here.

How fast does that Detroit Chevy run in the 1/4?
I grew up in St Joseph county MI. the first 15 years anyway...

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PostPosted: Sun May 02, 2010 7:38 am    Post subject:   Reply with quote

As far as the PCM, you have to check the Serv Code on the back... the Impala SS (L67) Serv Code is 12583827

If the PCM you have is the same serv code, you can flash the Impala L67 bin on it

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PostPosted: Sun May 02, 2010 10:26 am    Post subject:   Reply with quote

bbengineer wrote:
As far as the PCM, you have to check the Serv Code on the back... the Impala SS (L67) Serv Code is 12583827

If the PCM you have is the same serv code, you can flash the Impala L67 bin on it

BBEngineer


Thanks, I was wondering what that number is.. the scrap yeards have the PCM's split into two fifferent ID's

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